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Guest Viva Alonso

Team Mate Battles.

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True, but not when you look at race results.... see above pics

Seb had some bad luck and Ricardo some good luck, there is much more to it than just looking at the results as 8 to 1 and surely you and Vlag are quite aware of that.

Interesting that Vettel  looks a lot stronger in wet weather.  Both are good and IMO there is not much between them, as the lap times show. Seb will be back sooner rather than later.

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Guest Viva Alonso

Seb had some bad luck and Ricardo some good luck, there is much more to it than just looking at the results as 8 to 1 and surely you and Vlag are quite aware of that.

Interesting that Vettel  looks a lot stronger in wet weather.  Both are good and IMO there is not much between them, as the lap times show. Seb will be back sooner rather than later.

 Yes and Ricciardo had some bad luck and Vettel some good luck also...

 

I know there is more to the 8-1 score ... and yes Vettel will be back sooner or later, if he will ever dominate again as the previous 4 years ?? 

 

Just imagine that scorecard was Alonso vs Kim and Kimi was 8-1 up on Alonso!!!!! 

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Seb had some bad luck and Ricardo some good luck, there is much more to it than just looking at the results as 8 to 1 and surely you and Vlag are quite aware of that.

Interesting that Vettel  looks a lot stronger in wet weather.  Both are good and IMO there is not much between them, as the lap times show. Seb will be back sooner rather than later.

 

Of course there is more to look at than just 8-1, and I have done that as well. Maybe I should update my little list that I made for Owen. I think I last update it after Germany. :36_11_6:

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Guest Viva Alonso

Flashback! ................

 

UfraX, on 12 Sept 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Ferrari sound very desperate...as they should be.   If your current driver line-up is unable to give the proper feed-back on the car's handling now, why would they be able to do it in 2014?   Perhaps Ferrari hopes that with Kimi elevating Lotus to be more competitive, he will be a help in doing what Alonso and Massa could not really achieve with the Ferrari?

 

 

UfraX, on 12 Sept 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Perhaps Ferrari hopes that with Kimi trying to push for the front of the grid, he will take Alonso with him to take qualifying more seriously?   Two quick drivers in the same car competing, normally results in a quicker car in general.

 

 

UfraX, on 13 Sept 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

One have to think for a minute what Ferrari's weak point is at the moment? Qualifying. If you believe Alonso's spin, then he does not regard qualifying that important by stating that you do not need pole positions to win races. But he gets beaten by the pole every time! For me, the obvious question is if it is the Ferrari that cannot take the pole, or its drivers that do not believe that they can put the car on pole? Maybe Ferrari hopes with the inclusion of Kimi in the team it will enspire Alonso to work a bit harder in qualifying because if he does not, Kimi will beat him and NOT step aside in the race like Massa did upon request?

 

 

DennisL, on 16 Sept 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Methinks there are a lot of worried fellas in the little red fiat camp, as well as among the followers of the dancing donkey ! 

 

"I have a feeling coming on  ..........."

 

Can't wait for the first time Kimi is told to let Fonsie through! Of course it might just happen the other way round, and I'd love to see Kimi's smile when that happens. Interesting times ahead.

Edited by Viva Alonso

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To be honest, I think Kimi is just biding his time.  Seems like the mojo he had as a youngster is gone, even his sarcastic answers seem to indicate that.

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Red Bull salaries:

 

Vettel - $31.7 million

Ricciardo - $1.1 million

Seb worked his way to that money...Ricci has just started his 'summer' (one swallow does not make a summer???)...BUT, for all those Anti Seb fans ...Many of us SEB fans actually admire Ricci, not taking anything away from his performance, he's got grit, balls and drive for sure.... 

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Seb worked his way to that money...Ricci has just started his 'summer' (one swallow does not make a summer???)...BUT, for all those Anti Seb fans ...Many of us SEB fans actually admire Ricci, not taking anything away from his performance, he's got grit, balls and drive for sure.... 

Klop

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Seb worked his way to that money...Ricci has just started his 'summer' (one swallow does not make a summer???)...BUT, for all those Anti Seb fans ...Many of us SEB fans actually admire Ricci, not taking anything away from his performance, he's got grit, balls and drive for sure.... 

 

Not surprised at Seb's salary - as you say he has earned his stripes. I am a little surprised at how little the local lad gets paid. I suspect he would do the job for a lot less because he loves racing and on current form would be due a decent payrise at year end

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Seb worked his way to that money...Ricci has just started his 'summer' (one swallow does not make a summer???)...BUT, for all those Anti Seb fans ...Many of us SEB fans actually admire Ricci, not taking anything away from his performance, he's got grit, balls and drive for sure.... 

 

You might be a little surprised to learn that this year is not the first time that Ricciardo has out-performed Vettel in the same machinery.

 

One of the few who are probably not surprised is Webber. He predicted, in February, that Ricciardo at least equal Vettel in quali. I did not post it at the time because I expected the general reaction would be something like: "What does he know? Vettel wiped the floor with him and he is just a sour Aussie, etc, etc".

 

Ricciardo will equal Vettel in qualifying - Webber

 

Red Bull

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Ricciardo will equal Vettel in qualifying - Webber

ESPN Staff

February 10, 2014 « Still enough time to resolve issues - Red Bull | Lotus completes shakedown 'without any major problems' »

© Getty Images

Enlarge

Mark Webber is expecting his replacement at Red Bull, Daniel Ricciardo, to give Sebastian Vettel a hard time in qualifying this year.

Ricciardo joined the team from Toro Rosso over the winter after Webber decided to quit Formula One for sportscars. Webber only beat Vettel in qualifying on two occasions in their final year as team-mates, but he believes Ricciardo has the ability to equal the four-time champion over the course of the season.

"He'll go well," Webber said in an interview for the March issue of Motor Sport magazine. "I think he'll give Seb a real hard time in qualifying - it'll be 50:50 in the first year, I reckon.

"I took a few off Seb last year - and the blown floor is gone now. I think Daniel will be fine, and it certainly won't hurt him that he's come through the Red Bull system. I just hope he gets better starts than I did!"

Webber made clear that he holds Vettel's driving ability in high regard, but believes Ferrari's Fernando Alonso is still the best racer in F1.

"I always thought Fernando was the best, and I still do - on Sundays. On one lap, though, I think Seb's got him covered - and I'm talking in terms of preparation, not just pace. Fernando's had a lot of poles in his time, but probably age has come into it - you lose a little bit. In the race, though, he's got more strings to his bow than anyone else, and he's relentless.

"Seb's strengths, as we know, are escaping at the start, and running in clean air - when you get these things in clean air now, it's a whole other story, in terms of tyres and so on. He's like a computer, isn't he? His only weakness was always fast corners."

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/144887.html#KUgsgB1OBUrUfAEt.99

 

Edited by vlagman

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" He's like a computer, isn't he? His only weakness was always fast corners."

 

Which is probably why he is so off the mark without the aerodynamics of the 2013 car. It seems that the "Red Bull traction control" is not VRF (Vettel's Right Foot), like our friend Ufrax liked to say, after al.

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Ahhh. I have found the article about Daniel Ricciardo being quicker than Vettel in the same car............. back in 2010 already:

 

Ricciardo ends final day on top
ESPNF1 Staff

November 17, 2010

 

Australia's Daniel Ricciardo remained on top of the timesheets on the final day of the Formula One young drivers' test at Abu Dhabi, his Red Bull setting a lap time a full 1.3 seconds faster than Sebastian Vettel's pole time for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

"It was cool to do this test and great to get so close to the big boys times from the weekend! It's very rare to get a perfect car, but I have to say this is very close," said Ricciardo afterwards.

Driving Mark Webber's Hungarian Grand Prix winning machine, Ricciardo clocked a best time of 1:38.102s from his 77 laps to finish .700 ahead of Jerome d'Ambrosio's Renault and Sam Bird's Mercedes.

"It always takes some time to adapt to a new car, but I quickly felt comfortable in the R30 and we found a good balance early on," said d'Ambrosio.

Regular McLaren tester Gary Paffett, taking over duties from Oliver Turvey, was fourth fastest ahead of Jules Bianchi's Ferrari.

Sergio Perez, enjoying his first ever outing in a Formula One car, impressed with the sixth fastest time in his Sauber. Already confirmed as Kamui Kobayashi's team-mate for 2011, he finished ahead of Paul di Resta's Force India and reigning GP2 champion Pastor Maldonado, who switched from HRT to Williams for Wednesday's test.

"I think in the course of the day I got closer to the limit," said Perez. "I was very happy with the way we worked. Today I tested different parts of the car and in general I really learned a lot about all the procedures, which are quite different to what I'm used to from GP2."

Jean-Eric Vergne was ninth fastest in his Toro Rosso ahead of Yelmer Buurman, who brought out the red flags with 20 minutes remaining due to a mechanical problem.

Having won the final GP2 race of the season at the same circuit, Davide Valsecchi finished 11th quickest on his debut for HRT, two seconds faster than Bruno Senna's qualifying effort despite suffering a late spin trying to improve on his time. Fellow debutants Luiz Razia and Josef Kral were 12th and 13th with Rodolfo Gonzalez and Vladimir Arabadzhiev rounding off the lap times.

Pos.  Driver  Car  Best Time  Laps
1  Daniel Ricciardo  Red Bull  1:38.102  77
2  Jerome D'Ambrosio  Renault  1:38.802  83
3  Sam Bird  Mercedes  1:39.220  82
4  Gary Paffett  McLaren  1:39:760  84
5  Jules Bianchi  Ferrari  1:39.916  93
6  Sergio Perez  Sauber  1:40.543  91
7  Paul di Resta  Force India  1:40.901  27
8  Pastor Maldonado  Williams  1:40.944  81
9  Jean-Eric Vergne  Toro Rosso  1:40.974  61
10  Yelmer Buurman  Force India  1:41.178  67
11  Davide Valsecchi  HRT  1:43.013  32
12  Luiz Razia  Virgin  1:43.525  70
13  Josef Kral  HRT  1:44.143  61
14  Rodolfo Gonzalez  Lotus  1:44.312  41
15  Vladimir Arabadzhiev  Lotus  1:45.723  49

 

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/34649.html#zkFHB1LWzI1h9VZB.99

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Guest Viva Alonso

Ricciardo signed a 3 year contract.

 

Christian Horner has stated that their new recruit Daniel Ricciardo has done enough to cement his place in the team for the 2015 Formula 1 season.

The Australian replaced veteran Mark Webber at the end of the 2013 season at the Milton Keynes-based outfit after an impressive two-year stint with Red Bull's sister team Torro Rosso.

Ricciardo is on a three-year deal with Red Bull but the 'break clause' in his contract allows the team to replace the driver if necessary, after one season.

Edited by Viva Alonso

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I see that Horner's latest explanation for Vettel's woes is that he is tired after having to work so hard to win his four consecutive titles. Seems his battling to come to grip with the new car, a week or two ago, has now made way for this latest diagnoses.

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Lol Vlag is Bobbok on the F1 forum. Bob is always pissing off about The Blue Biulls, Vlag is always pissing off about Vettel. Ja nee swaer, got you. The Seb fans havent pissed on and on about Alonso this year but give Vlag 2 minutes and Seb will be his first pissing session. Enjoy it Oom.

:-):-)

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Lol Vlag is Bobbok on the F1 forum. Bob is always pissing off about The Blue Biulls, Vlag is always pissing off about Vettel. Ja nee swaer, got you. The Seb fans havent pissed on and on about Alonso this year but give Vlag 2 minutes and Seb will be his first pissing session. Enjoy it Oom.

:-):-)

:36_11_6:  :36_11_6:  :36_11_6:

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Lol Vlag is Bobbok on the F1 forum. Bob is always pissing off about The Blue Biulls, Vlag is always pissing off about Vettel. Ja nee swaer, got you. The Seb fans havent pissed on and on about Alonso this year but give Vlag 2 minutes and Seb will be his first pissing session. Enjoy it Oom.

:-):-)

 

There is nothing about Alonso that you can piss on and on about. He is all over his team mate. The one that everybody was predicting would wipe the floor with Alonso. Ferrari has been trying to sort their staff out because they know that there major issue is that their car, whict is designed and built by their staff, is not competitive enough, unlike RB. They know that their car is not the problem, with it being the best of the rest, as Ricciardo has proven.

 

The problem for the Vettel fan base, and Honest Horner, is that they have predicted that Seb would be bouncing back the next race. After the first few races, the next race changed into Siverstone. Siverstone has come and gone and "Seb has not worked out the car yet" eventually turned into "Seb hasn't adapted to the new rules yet" which has now turned into "Seb is worn out". As if the rest of the pack has been doing fokol for four years. Apparently, by Horner's way of arguing, they have been sitting back, watching Seb ride off into the sunset. They have not been working even harder to try and catch him.

 

The biggest stumbling block for the Vettel fan base, however, lies with the fan base itself and not with Seb. They have a problem in finding the right way to say, "You were right about Seb all along", without actually saying it. :36_11_6: :36_11_6:

 

That would be so much easier than this slowly warming to Ricciardo, who has been the better driver form race one (and before :36_11_6: ), and this slowly let Seb slide away into the back of the nostalgic memory banks, while pretending to truly believe that he is as good as he was made out to be, and better.

 

Anyway, as Viva has said, the only way to spark debate/reaction on this forum is to mention the name "Sebastian Vettel".

 

Having said that, I have noticed that Paddy Lowe is very outspoken lately. He has been raving on and hinting at his "big" role in putting Merc at the front. While he might be right, I have a distinct feeling that he knows what we know as well. He is, at present, still ploughing with Ross Brawn's tools, which brings me to another subject. What has really been happening behind the scenes?

 

Williams

 

They have been showing exactly why they are still needed in F1. They are the only truly privateer team left form the old days. They are mainly an F1 team and an F1 team/company alone and after years in the dark, they are properly back in the game with not the best of the personnel if you look at the names at the other "big" teams. And I am not talking about the drivers.

 

Merc.

They are riding the wave, but they have a constant issue between their drivers. While Toto is a good guy, he is no Ross Brawn.... yet. We would not have seen the childish kak between the drivers with RB around. He would have sorted out Lauda as well. Lauda is, IMO, becoming Merc's version of Bernie Ecclestone and RB's version of Helmut Marko.

 

Ferrari.

They are in a way the opposite of Merc and in the a way the same. They are also still ploughing with Stefano Domenicali's tools and the real tools of the "new" guys or the post-Domenicali guys' handy work will only be seen from next year onwards. The difference between the tow teams is that RB left the with good tools and Domenicali left Ferrari with kak tools. What is a major disappointment, for me, is the fact that Ferrari missed the trick despite having Rory Byrne on board. Did I overrate Byrne? Yes, probably. Maybe he has been away from F1 for too long. It has not been all bad from him, though. As far as I know, he played a big role in getting their wind-tunnel issues sorted out at last.

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There is nothing about Alonso that you can piss on and on about. He is all over his team mate. The one that everybody was predicting would wipe the floor with Alonso. Ferrari has been trying to sort their staff out because they know that there major issue is that their car, whict is designed and built by their staff, is not competitive enough, unlike RB. They know that their car is not the problem, with it being the best of the rest, as Ricciardo has proven.

 

The problem for the Vettel fan base, and Honest Horner, is that they have predicted that Seb would be bouncing back the next race. After the first few races, the next race changed into Siverstone. Siverstone has come and gone and "Seb has not worked out the car yet" eventually turned into "Seb hasn't adapted to the new rules yet" which has now turned into "Seb is worn out". As if the rest of the pack has been doing fokol for four years. Apparently, by Horner's way of arguing, they have been sitting back, watching Seb ride off into the sunset. They have not been working even harder to try and catch him.

 

The biggest stumbling block for the Vettel fan base, however, lies with the fan base itself and not with Seb. They have a problem in finding the right way to say, "You were right about Seb all along", without actually saying it. :36_11_6: :36_11_6:

 

That would be so much easier than this slowly warming to Ricciardo, who has been the better driver form race one (and before :36_11_6: ), and this slowly let Seb slide away into the back of the nostalgic memory banks, while pretending to truly believe that he is as good as he was made out to be, and better.

 

Anyway, as Viva has said, the only way to spark debate/reaction on this forum is to mention the name "Sebastian Vettel".

 

Having said that, I have noticed that Paddy Lowe is very outspoken lately. He has been raving on and hinting at his "big" role in putting Merc at the front. While he might be right, I have a distinct feeling that he knows what we know as well. He is, at present, still ploughing with Ross Brawn's tools, which brings me to another subject. What has really been happening behind the scenes?

 

Williams

 

They have been showing exactly why they are still needed in F1. They are the only truly privateer team left form the old days. They are mainly an F1 team and an F1 team/company alone and after years in the dark, they are properly back in the game with not the best of the personnel if you look at the names at the other "big" teams. And I am not talking about the drivers.

 

Merc.

They are riding the wave, but they have a constant issue between their drivers. While Toto is a good guy, he is no Ross Brawn.... yet. We would not have seen the childish kak between the drivers with RB around. He would have sorted out Lauda as well. Lauda is, IMO, becoming Merc's version of Bernie Ecclestone and RB's version of Helmut Marko.

 

Ferrari.

They are in a way the opposite of Merc and in the a way the same. They are also still ploughing with Stefano Domenicali's tools and the real tools of the "new" guys or the post-Domenicali guys' handy work will only be seen from next year onwards. The difference between the tow teams is that RB left the with good tools and Domenicali left Ferrari with kak tools. What is a major disappointment, for me, is the fact that Ferrari missed the trick despite having Rory Byrne on board. Did I overrate Byrne? Yes, probably. Maybe he has been away from F1 for too long. It has not been all bad from him, though. As far as I know, he played a big role in getting their wind-tunnel issues sorted out at last.

Are these words re the teams your words and insight or from a website?

 

Just asking because you said " What has really been happening behind the scenes?", and I wanted to know if it's your analysis or quoted. And dont read anything negative about my question, I think even if it is your words/opinion it is an interesting analysis. And I wanted to know if there was more about the other teams

 

As for Seb - true fans stay true fans no matter what shit their boytjies go through. You support Alonso through thick and thin but now you expect us to rollover and say "Ferrari mannetjies were correct all along". What a load of BS. None of us have come out with excuses for Seb (As opposed to maybe Horner?) but we are waiting for him to get his mojo and that of the car aligned. There's nothing untoward with our support of Seb, or even admiring Ricci - you just want to start pissing about Seb again.

 

:36_11_6:  :36_11_6:

Edited by Mata Hari

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You should know me by now. When I quote something, I make it clear by either posting a link or naming the source or posting the piece in a Italics and in grey font. This, in return, is also not just having a dig at you or another attack. :)

 

So, those are my own thoughts about it, and it was just a quick summary of my view of some of the teams and in particular the top teams. I have included Williams for two reasons. I have always had a very soft spot for Williams. They were the team that I supported when I started watching F1 and I am really chuffed that they are on teh up again. Apart from that, it was also the team where another of my old favourites, JPM, started his short F1 career. I truly think that a young Montoya in the current bunch would have been a hell of a lot of fun. He had balls and backed down for nobody, not even Schumacher. Anybody who was prepared to challenge Schumacher scores points in my books.

 

That brings me to another little "secret". Although I do rate Lewis Hamilton as a driver, I am not too sure that he really has the balls. I first got that feeling when in a race - I cannot recall which one, right now) - Schumacher was holding up Button and Lewis. He was bordering on blocking them illegally and Ross saw it but waited for a while. Button then challenged him in a long right hand bend. He was sitting behind him for a few laps and worked out how to pass him. Lewis was right behind Button and could clearly see what was happening. Button pulled off his move and overtook Schumacher and Lewis had a full view of how he did it. Problem was that he did not challenge Schumacher or tried the same move as what Button did. He just sat  their and waited until Schumacher was told to move over for him. The irony, isn't it?

 

I never really thought about that race again, until Lewis' recent shenanigans in the media about Rosberg. Instead of giving him a go on the track, he attacked "his friend" in the media. I could be horribly wrong but that is just my opinion. The sad reality is that we might have that stupid double points BS determining the 2014 WDC. Whether it is Lewis or Nico..... one of them could well be crowned due to the double points.

 

As far as the other teams are concerned, I have not really thought about what is going on in the back ground. The last time that I really paid close attention was when Heiki was driving for Caterham. I am keeping an eye on Bianchi's progress but I do not really pay attention to the team itself.

 

Sadly, for Viva, I do not see Hulk making any inroads in becoming one of "the great drivers" any time soon. He has just been forced into missing out due to unfortunate circumstances, coupled with a good deal of bad luck as well. The guys who are really catching the eye at the moment are Ricciardo and Bottas for obvious reasons, followed by Grosjean, Kvyat and Magnussen. Even Perez is somwhere in the distance and kind of blowing hot and cold.

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Damn, and now I forgot to respond to this part:

 

"As for Seb - true fans stay true fans no matter what shit their boytjies go through. You support Alonso through thick and thin but now you expect us to rollover and say "Ferrari mannetjies were correct all along". What a load of BS. None of us have come out with excuses for Seb (As opposed to maybe Horner?) but we are waiting for him to get his mojo and that of the car aligned. There's nothing untoward with our support of Seb, or even admiring Ricci - you just want to start pissing about Seb again."

 

I have no issue with the true fans story and that is how it should be. Having said that, I have not expected anybody to roll over to anything and yes, my remark was a bit TIC. But only a bit. :)

 

What I was actually saying was: "See? We told you, didn't we?" :15_8_217::36_11_6: :36_11_6:

Edited by vlagman

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Damn, and now I forgot to respond to this part:

 

"As for Seb - true fans stay true fans no matter what shit their boytjies go through. You support Alonso through thick and thin but now you expect us to rollover and say "Ferrari mannetjies were correct all along". What a load of BS. None of us have come out with excuses for Seb (As opposed to maybe Horner?) but we are waiting for him to get his mojo and that of the car aligned. There's nothing untoward with our support of Seb, or even admiring Ricci - you just want to start pissing about Seb again."

 

I have no issue with the true fans story and that is how it should be. Having said that, I have not expected anybody to roll over to anything and yes, my remark was a bit TIC. But only a bit. :)

 

What I was actually saying was: "See? We told you, didn't we?" :15_8_217::36_11_6: :36_11_6:

HA ha, I know what you were implying. Doesnt mean you still 100% correct due to a few races? One swallow does not make a summer (for Ricci) nor does one bad season mean the end of Seb.

 

So, so far this year re Seb??

 

Nah, you just got lucky so far....

 

:15_8_217:  :36_11_6:  :36_11_6:

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