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Guest Viva Alonso

McLaren - Honda * The Team ,The Car, The Engine....

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The truth is: McL got hold of some of Ferrari's intellectual property in an unlawful way - Spygate. Alonso knew about it and did nothing about it, until he was treated "unfairly" by the team.  You can't explain it away, that's why he is keeping his mouth shut. The qualifying incident with him and Lewis was also there for everyone to see. 

 

Klop. 

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Yeah! ..... just get the driver announcement over and done with! .... its not fun anymore lol

 

 

Im realllllly hoping its Button ..... for no other reason but for Alonso to add one more ex WDC champs scalp to his collection hahaha

 

Seriously.... from a feedback / development point of view Button has a lot more experience, the McLaren Honda will have a lot of issues to be sorted out and they need drivers with experience! .... feel sorry for K-Mag

2007 championship final standings  
October 21, 2007 at 8:39 pm by Keith Collantine

raik_mass_alo_inter_07_fer.thumbnail.jpgKimi Raikkonen prevailed in the closes ever finish to a championship between three drivers. Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso both ended the season a single point behind the Finn.

Ferrari were crowned constructors’ champions at the Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’s exclusion from the championship.

As McLaren will not have the world champion driving for them next year they will likely end up using car numbers 22 and 23.

Drivers’ championship 2007

1. Kimi Raikkonen 110

2. Lewis Hamilton 109* (debutant)

3. Fernando Alonso 109

4. Felipe Massa 94

5. Nick Heidfeld 61

6. Robert Kubica 39

7. Heikki Kovalainen 30

8. Giancarlo Fisichella 21

9. Nico Rosberg 20

10. David Coulthard 14

11. Alexander Wurz 13

12. Mark Webber 10

13. Jarno Trulli 8

14. Sebastian Vettel 6**

15. Jenson Button 6

16. Ralf Schumacher 5

17. Takuma Sato 4

18. Vitantonio Liuzzi 3

19. Adrian Sutil 1

Did not score: Christijan Albers, Rubens Barrichello, Anthony Davidson, Kazuki Nakajima, Scott Speed, Sakon Yamamoto, Markus Winkelhock

*More second places than Fernando Alonso

**More fourth places than Jenson Button

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The truth is: McL got hold of some of Ferrari's intellectual property in an unlawful way - Spygate. Alonso knew about it and did nothing about it, until he was treated "unfairly" by the team.  You can't explain it away, that's why he is keeping his mouth shut. The qualifying incident with him and Lewis was also there for everyone to see. 

No need to explain anything away. We do not know what exactly led to Alonso's "threat". If you want to discuss the Hungary incident, you have to discuss the entire situation and not only the "convenient" part.

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Guest Viva Alonso

Ron: Lewis played big role in 2007 debacle

 

Ron Dennis has taken a swipe at Lewis Hamilton over Fernando Alonso's falling out with McLaren in 2007, saying the Brit played a major role for the unsavoury season.

Dennis will be hoping for better luck the second time of asking as the Spaniard left after just one season in 2007 after a highly publicised fallout.

The tension at the team ultimately cost McLaren the Drivers' Championship with both Hamilton and Alonso falling short of Kimi Raikkonen of Ferrari.

While many people have pointed the finger at Alonso and Dennis in the past, the McLaren chief executive officer revealed during Thursday's driver line-up unveiling that Hamilton was not blameless for the debacle.

"I am very tough on myself, and that toughness and aggression that I focus on myself isn't always a good catalyst to a balanced approach to life," he said. "I've mellowed quite a bit over the last two years, and became much more inclusive which I think is a good strategy to have to address the change of succession in the company.

"But to go back to that period, you look at the chemistry. We had Lewis, a young guy who was understandably perceived by many people as the chosen one, but also someone who had immaturity. If you go down the 'who struck the first blow' route, actually I would say Lewis had his role to play in starting this process which escalated.

"By and large, those challenges that you have between drivers - I had them in previous Championships with Alain [Prost] and Ayrton [senna], several times - I have always managed to be able to defuse.

But this one got away from me. I look back on my contribution to that with exactly the same emotion as Fernando expressed, which is you regret the mistakes you've made in your life but sometimes you can't change what's happened.

"Could I have engineered a way out of it? Well I could have probably done things better, but the reality is that you look back on your mistakes and if you're honest with yourself, you accept them and you're intent not to repeat them, then you put yourself in a frame of mind that actually you overcompensate. So I don't actually anticipate any issues between Fernando and I."

 

..................

For both Fernando Alonso and Ron Dennis, a successful F1 marriage is "unfinished business".

When they split seven years ago, most insiders found the idea of a reunion at any point in the future impossible to fathom.

Indeed, as what Alonso on Thursday described as their recent "dating" in hotel rooms ramped up, McLaren supremo Dennis admitted that it was initially an "uncomfortable" process.

But with McLaren-Honda needing the best possible driver for 2015, and Alonso seeking a highly-resourced home after his Ferrari exit, both strong characters analysed the reasons for their split and decided to try again.

"You regret the mistakes you make in life," said Dennis on Thursday.

Back at Woking on Thursday, Alonso also admitted that after the 2007 situation spiralled out of control, it had subsequently always played on his mind.

"I had this wish to remove the only thing in my career I am not proud of," he said. "2007."

The 33-year-old Spaniard, set to earn close to an incredible $50 million in 2015, believes his relationship with Dennis soured so badly simply because they are both "extremely competitive people".

Alonso also admits his own failings as a then 25-year-old.

"We have to be honest with ourselves and, if we are, we can find the things we would have done differently," he said.

"The other side is it is no longer 2007. It is not McLaren-Mercedes, it is McLaren-Honda, which is a completely different thing in my opinion," said Alonso.

"Jenson (Button) is not Lewis, which is completely different. I am sitting here, ready for this challenge with McLaren-Honda, because I see no problems at all."

Edited by Viva Alonso

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Amazing that Ron has this incredible insight that he didnt say anything re Lewis while Lewis was still part of McClaren? Now it's easy to point fingers cos he's at Merc? Interesting

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Amazing that Ron has this incredible insight that he didnt say anything re Lewis while Lewis was still part of McClaren? Now it's easy to point fingers cos he's at Merc? Interesting

That confirms the one thing from that time (the only one) that Alonso always maintained, i.e. that Lewis started the kak in Hungary.

At least also confirms that Dennis has realised the mistakes he made in that time. I have said it before. Imagine if he managed the situation better and he could have held on to Alonso, Hamilton and Adrian Newey.

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Guest Viva Alonso

Amazing that Ron has this incredible insight that he didnt say anything re Lewis while Lewis was still part of McClaren? Now it's easy to point fingers cos he's at Merc? Interesting

 

The way I read it was that he said Hamilton played a role in it... as He (Ron Dennis) later also admitted he made mistakes and could have done things different.

 

Alonso also said he made mistakes in 2007 and he is back now to rectify the part of his F1 career he is not happy about. 

 

So in my eyes not 1 single person responsible or to blame it was a combination of all of them including Whitmarsh (who admitted his role in it and the mistakes he also made long ago)

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All I am saying is it's strange Dennis is saying it NOW that he has Alonso in the fold. Why didnt he say it earlier this year when NEITHER Lewis nor Alo were in the team. Now it's hard to believe he actually means anything because it's all of a sudden Lewis' "fault" from dennis perspective. I know you Alo fans wont hear what I am saying - just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that Dennis NOW says these things, he's had a while to do so and actually would have been more appropriate during 2014 BEFORE end of year signings. Seems he's on the same credibility bullshit scale as Vlags famous Christian

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Guest Jolly Joker

All I am saying is it's strange Dennis is saying it NOW that he has Alonso in the fold. Why didnt he say it earlier this year when NEITHER Lewis nor Alo were in the team. Now it's hard to believe he actually means anything because it's all of a sudden Lewis' "fault" from dennis perspective. I know you Alo fans wont hear what I am saying - just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that Dennis NOW says these things, he's had a while to do so and actually would have been more appropriate during 2014 BEFORE end of year signings. Seems he's on the same credibility bullshit scale as Vlags famous Christian

 

Because he was asked the question NOW.

He didn't say it was Lewis's fault. He said he was not blameless and had a part to play.

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Guest Viva Alonso

Honest ron said what all of us believed to be the truth..... that Lewis and alonso played a part in it and that he fucked up in his management of it... in essence nothing new.....

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All I am saying is it's strange Dennis is saying it NOW that he has Alonso in the fold. Why didnt he say it earlier this year when NEITHER Lewis nor Alo were in the team. Now it's hard to believe he actually means anything because it's all of a sudden Lewis' "fault" from dennis perspective. I know you Alo fans wont hear what I am saying - just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that Dennis NOW says these things, he's had a while to do so and actually would have been more appropriate during 2014 BEFORE end of year signings. Seems he's on the same credibility bullshit scale as Vlags famous Christian

Mata, my view of Dennis is no secret. Fact is that this is not the first time that Dennis has eluded to his part in the 2007 balls up and Alonso has now also come out and accepted that he also had a part in it. The only one who hasn't accepted anything is Lewis,and he has been asked a number of times.

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Honest ron said what all of us believed to be the truth..... that Lewis and alonso played a part in it and that he fucked up in his management of it... in essence nothing new.....

What you are saying is that we were right.....again. LOL

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The good, the bad and the ugly: Fernando Alonso's season at McLaren in 2007 Recalling the Spaniard's previous stint at McLaren in 2007 - and explaining why it all went wrong for both parties...

By Mike Wise.   Last Updated: 11/12/14 11:18am

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Sky Bet

Henry Ford said history is bunk and, as another visionary in the same line of business, you may think McLaren boss Ron Dennis is of the same opinion.

But since the events of 2007, culminating in Fernando Alonso's sudden departure after less than a year at Woking, represent perhaps the most controversial slice of F1 history in recent years, they're impossible to ignore. They’ve been there lurking throughout the protracted negotiations that finally concluded with Thursday's announcement that Alonso will return to the team for 2015.

It's those memories that have left people pondering the obvious question: could it actually work this time?

 

In a sense, it did then. Alonso might argue as much; even though focus was inevitably trained on Lewis Hamilton’s remarkable rookie season, in the final reckoning he didn’t beat the Spaniard. But the fact both were beaten by Kimi Raikkonen gave Alonso vindication when he left. That was his worry all along.

 

In reality, it didn’t work. In fact, it turned out a right mess: intense personal ambition colliding with a rigid desire for sporting equality, played out against a backdrop of industrial espionage. Alonso left in early November, just one year into a three-year contract. But it had all seemed so promising 11 months earlier...

 

January: Alonso arrived as double world champion. And if his new Action Man crewcut was anything to go by, he was keen to impress his new boss who, as we all know, likes things to be just so. He’d signed in November 2005 - right after he'd won his first title in Brazil, in fact, when Dennis made overtures on the podium. Juan Pablo Montoya won that race from Raikkonen but both had left McLaren by the end of the following year.

When Dennis lured Alonso away from Renault, meanwhile, Hamilton had just won the F3 Euroseries; a McLaren protégé he might have been, but he didn’t figure then. However, a victorious GP2 campaign the following year, coupled with the departure of both their superstars (Montoya ahead of schedule) had suddenly placed him on the fast-track.

 

March: Alonso qualified second for the Australian GP, with Hamilton fourth. Both finished on the podium, well beaten by Raikkonen (now at Ferrari) but the rookie’s statement of intent – passing his team-mate at the start of the race – was duly noted. Meanwhile, Britain woke up to a new sporting hero.

 

May: Hamilton’s consistency (he eventually racked up nine podium finishes in his first nine races) gave him the championship lead by the Spanish GP. By then, Alonso knew his team-mate was the real deal. "After one or two races, we saw him become a championship contender and we still see him as one now," he said in Barcelona after finishing third behind Hamilton and the race winner, Ferrari's Felipe Massa. Yet he still seemed confident he would eventually prevail, adding: "But he is the one who worries me least because he is my team-mate and we are here to help each other.” 

So far, so 'on message'. But Lewis had yet to win and after following Alonso home at Monaco, he was emboldened to say he felt he could have - but the team told him not to risk overtaking. Because of the team orders ban, the FIA announced an investigation but cleared McLaren of any wrongdoing.

 

June: Hamilton got the winning habit with back-to-back victories in Canada and Indianapolis. And Alonso was clearly getting frustrated: he chased Hamilton throughout the US GP but when his only real attempt to get past failed, he veered over to the McLaren pitwall next time around and gesticulated frantically. No estaba destinado a ser así!

World Championship standings after United States Grand Prix:

1 Hamilton - 58 points

2 Alonso - 48

3 Massa - 39

4 Raikkonen - 32

 

A storm was brewing in deepest Surrey, meanwhile, after McLaren’s chief designer Mike Coughlan was caught red-handed (after his wife had visited a photocopying shop) with 780-pages’ worth of Ferrari design documentation, sent by their disgruntled former chief mechanic Nigel Stepney. While both men were sacked by their teams, an FIA investigation could find no evidence the information had been seen by anyone else.

 

August: Qualifying at the Hungarian GP brings a reminder of those pointless ‘fuel-burning’ laps cars did on Saturday back then. Alonso and Hamilton took to the track and cruised around for a while before getting down to the nitty gritty. Except Hamilton had passed Alonso when he wasn’t supposed to and Alonso retaliated by spending too long in the pits - complete with more theatrical hand gestures - which meant Hamilton didn’t have enough time to get a final lap in.

 

Alonso took pole but was later docked five places on the grid after stewards decided he'd "unnecessarily impeded another driver". The fuse was lit, then, and it duly detonated on race morning when, during an argument with Dennis, Alonso reputedly told him he had emails relating to the Ferrari leak. Regardless of the perception of what transpired – an alleged attempt at blackmail in order to secure No 1 status – he soon apologised, but not before Dennis informed FIA president Max Mosley of what was said.

 

September: After re-opening its investigation into what is now known as ‘Spygate’, the FIA decided that McLaren did after all disseminate Ferrari’s technical data and fined them $100m. They were also thrown out of the Constructors’ Championship and later had to prove (successfully) that their 2008 car was legal. Mosley (no friend of Dennis’s) rubbed it in somewhat by saying they’d “polluted the championship”.

 

By now Dennis and Alonso were no longer talking. "The relationship between Fernando and myself is extremely cold," said the former during the FIA's hearing. "That is an understatement." Meanwhile, the latter’s hirsute-ness (much longer hair now while the razor was getting left at home) told its own story. Maybe.

 

October: Hamilton had led the title race all summer and appeared increasingly destined to become world champion after winning in the murk of a rainsodden Fuji. However, the following weekend in China found his car dribbling into the gravel at the pit-lane entry – his first retirement of the season. Alonso crashed out of the Japanese GP but finished second in China behind Raikkonen, whose own title push was, all of a sudden, gathering momentum.

 

There was even a whiff of paranoia in the air at Interlagos after an FIA steward was dispatched to McLaren’s pit to ensure equal treatment; having demanded to be No 1 for so long, Alonso now seemed concerned he’d been passed over completely.

 

Come the race, though, it was Hamilton out in the cold; dropping to eighth place from second on the grid on lap one (he got a little too close at Turn 4 trying to re-pass Alonso, who responded by braking a little too hard and sending him out on to the run-off) a gearbox problem then sent him plummeting to 18th. He recovered to finish seventh but Raikkonen won and took the title, overhauling a 17-point gap in the last two races.

 

Alonso finished third to tie Hamilton in the standings, just one point behind Raikkonen, but was gone the following month. “For some reason the combination of McLaren-Mercedes and Fernando has not really worked out,” Dennis said at the time, although he now claims he’s “moved on”. Likewise, Alonso says he’s older now (although still capable of making his feelings plainly felt, let’s say, if rumours about his last months at Ferrari are anything to go by).

 

A whole lot depends on the car, of course. McLaren’s 2007 MP4-22 was arguably the last great F1 car Alonso drove. He has challenged for the title in a Ferrari a couple of times since, but the best seat has always lain elsewhere – emphatically so in 2012, when only his own brilliance took him to within four points of another title. In terms of personal performance, that season could well stand as the high watermark of his career.

 

So history might not bode too well but who’s to say they can’t make it work this time? Warm personal relations actually mean very little if the protagonists are seeking a common goal. A telling quote from Dennis last time around was: "My job is to win the world championship; my job isn't for people to love and hug me. If I have difficult relationships with people I have difficult relationships with them." The Blair/Brown relationship was subsequently revealed as not just cold but toxic; yet no one can say the New Labour project wasn’t a success.

 

After broken promises and tantrums, Gordon finally got the keys to Number 10 in June 2007 - around the same time ‘Spygate’ blew up, coincidentally, the hefty nudge that tipped Alonso/Dennis over the edge. Two distinct problems overlapped and created a perfect storm that caused an awful lot of damage.

But circumstances change and so, to an extent, do people. Let’s see what happens this time.

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Alonso took pole but was later docked five places on the grid after stewards decided he'd "unnecessarily impeded another driver". The fuse was lit, then, and it duly detonated on race morning when, during an argument with Dennis, Alonso reputedly told him he had emails relating to the Ferrari leak. Regardless of the perception of what transpired – an alleged attempt at blackmail in order to secure No 1 status – he soon apologised, but not before Dennis informed FIA president Max Mosley of what was said.

 

 

 

d7cup says11/12/14 8:36pm

I'm not a Hamilton fan but I have to say that the reason Alonso left Mclaren was simply because his huge ego couldn't accept that fact that he was constantly beaten by his rookie teammate...As simple as that..

elliot says11/12/14 3:01pm

Despite all this he Ron is now saying that Hamilton played a significant part in the fall out. All he did was drive fast and that suprised Alonso and he could not cope with not being the number 1 driver.

akira says11/12/14 2:15pm

What happened in 2007? Easy i'll help you there, As a double world champion Alonso couldn't take getting a whooping every odd weekend by a rookie Lewis Hamilton and threw his toys out of the pram. He thought the team was "his" and didn't appreciate not being allowed to win all the time. That is an absolute fact and Ron Dennis' comments at the time proved that. Ron Dennis' attitude was "if you think you're faster than Lewis then race him and beat him" but he couldn't. In the end it was only down to a few "rookie" errors that cost Lewis the title, not his double world champion team mate. I always thought Alonso would drive for Mclaren again but he'll never accept teaming up with Lewis ever again, no chance. I don't think he's going to easily sweep aside Button either.

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Guest Viva Alonso

You can quote essays 50 pages long.... its not saying anything new .... Im once again failing to see your point... if there is one?

Edited by Viva Alonso

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You can quote essays 50 pages long.... its not saying anything new .... Im once again failing to see your point... if there is one?

 

Die punt is Alonso is n doos. Hoop dit help.

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@Owen. Selective highlighting.......

 

 

This part is highlighted:

"Alonso retaliated by spending too long in the pits.........."

 

This part is ignored/not highlighted:

"Except Hamilton had passed Alonso when he wasn’t supposed.."

 

That was very important and paramount to the entire "outburst". Ek hoop rerig jy weet waarom ek so sê want ek is tog nie lus om die aangeleentheid te herhaal net omdat jy dit nie kan of wil verstaan nie. Vra net as jy rerig nie verstaan nie.

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d7cup says11/12/14 8:36pm

I'm not a Hamilton fan but I have to say that the reason Alonso left Mclaren was simply because his huge ego couldn't accept that fact that he was constantly beaten by his rookie teammate...As simple as that..

elliot says11/12/14 3:01pm

Despite all this he Ron is now saying that Hamilton played a significant part in the fall out. All he did was drive fast and that suprised Alonso and he could not cope with not being the number 1 driver.

akira says11/12/14 2:15pm

What happened in 2007? Easy i'll help you there, As a double world champion Alonso couldn't take getting a whooping every odd weekend by a rookie Lewis Hamilton and threw his toys out of the pram. He thought the team was "his" and didn't appreciate not being allowed to win all the time. That is an absolute fact and Ron Dennis' comments at the time proved that. Ron Dennis' attitude was "if you think you're faster than Lewis then race him and beat him" but he couldn't. In the end it was only down to a few "rookie" errors that cost Lewis the title, not his double world champion team mate. I always thought Alonso would drive for Mclaren again but he'll never accept teaming up with Lewis ever again, no chance. I don't think he's going to easily sweep aside Button either.

 Opinies van 'n paar Alonso haters soos jy want jy ken hom waarskynlik persoonlik, of hoe?

 

 

Die punt is Alonso is n doos. Hoop dit help.

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Guest Viva Alonso

Die punt is Alonso is n doos. Hoop dit help.

 

 

Moet dan nie 50 bladsye quote nie..... se net hy is n doos... dat ons kan aanbeweeg...

 

Ons weet nou al hy is useless, iemand wat gefire is , soos n hond weggejaag, over the hill hasbeen..... net jammer die manne wat weet stem nie saam nie. ... en nee voor jy nou weer n draadkar kraam, ek praat nie van my en Vlag nie lol... check die driver ranking thread

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Guest Viva Alonso

Hy kon hom nie op die baan verby gaan nie toe hou hy hom maar terug in die kuipe. Ek verstaan heel duidelik dankie Vlagman.

 

Rerig?????????

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