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vlagman

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The Senate will be looking into Sleepy Joe and Snorting Hunter. He has already said that on Friday or Saturday.

What was interesting to me is John Kerry’s stepson. I was under the impression that he was also in on all these dodgy deals and was more or less wringing my hands for when they were going to go after him as well. The evidence by the defence yesterday actually indicated differently though. According to what they testified, Kerry’s stepson was actually the one who exposed Hunter and his buddy Devon and their dealings with Burisma and said that he could not agree with it and also did not agree to have their company involved in that shit. 

I watched everything but stopped towards the end of Alan Dershowitz’ evidence because it was really getting boring. What he said was interesting but I think he was busy overselling his evidence.
 

He reminded me a bit of an episode years ago. A few of our sales people were sent on a short course. Part of it was a little psychometric test to see where they were at the start of the course. One of the guys told me that he was pissing himself, laughing, when he got his evaluation back. He said that they basically said that he sometimes suffer from verbal diarrhoea. He would sell something and as soon as he realises he has the deal in the bag, he starts buying it back. This, to me, was what Dershowitz was busy doing. Then again, he is an emeritus law professor after all. 

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2 hours ago, vlagman said:

And the left still thinks he is a stupid idiot who is an agent for Putin. 
 

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I would never use the word Genius with Mr Dump. I would however use the word IDIOT and F*cken IDIOT most generously.

But each to his own

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As you say. 

1 hour ago, Mata Hari said:

But each to his own

He is light years ahead of any of the 2020 Dem candidates. And this impeachment circus is turning into a massive embarrassment for the Dems. You need to look no further than his defence team yesterday. I’m surprised that they haven’t given up yet. Maybe they have. Who knows. 
 

I loved how they used Nadler and Schumer’s own past testimonies against them and in favour of Trump. They literally made Nadler and Schumer testify in defence of Trump. 😂

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Because the democrats are battling to find a decent candidate does not elevate Trump in any way Vlag. An isolationist American president is not good for the world. America does not live in a vacuum. They affect everything in the world and we in SA particularly are feeling his jumping up and down and nosiy presidency. You may not feel it in the UK. I liken the Democrat breakdown after the Hilary loss (who by the way won the popular vote) to the shit we have with the DA breakdown. That leaves the people in power very dangerous in their power and that certainly applies to Trump.  

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1 hour ago, Mata Hari said:

Because the democrats are battling to find a decent candidate does not elevate Trump in any way Vlag. An isolationist American president is not good for the world. America does not live in a vacuum. They affect everything in the world and we in SA particularly are feeling his jumping up and down and nosiy presidency. You may not feel it in the UK. I liken the Democrat breakdown after the Hilary loss (who by the way won the popular vote) to the shit we have with the DA breakdown. That leaves the people in power very dangerous in their power and that certainly applies to Trump.  

The clue is in the name - United States. It only exists because of the rules around the electoral college system and equal senate representation for all states. The smaller states refused to join the union until their interests were protected by a voting system that prevented them getting steamrolled by the larger states. As such the popular vote has always been irrelevant and for Hilary and her ilk to run that argument is poor form indeed (to be expected by a born to rule type like her). The deplorables will be waiting at the ballot box again in November for her or her proxy.   

 

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For me the problem globally is that only the rich people have the means or the "right" to even stand for office of any country.........there's not a lot of talent around as far as leadership goes. So..........nothing is going to be changing anytime soon. Step one - get rid of the vested interests/the lobbyists who actually control the world. 

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4 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

Because the democrats are battling to find a decent candidate does not elevate Trump in any way Vlag. An isolationist American president is not good for the world. America does not live in a vacuum. They affect everything in the world and we in SA particularly are feeling his jumping up and down and nosiy presidency. You may not feel it in the UK. I liken the Democrat breakdown after the Hilary loss (who by the way won the popular vote) to the shit we have with the DA breakdown. That leaves the people in power very dangerous in their power and that certainly applies to Trump.  

I think African nations should look closer to home for solutions to their problems before blaming Trump. He's only been in power for 3 plus years. Africa's been in the toilet for centuries.

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1 hour ago, WeDaFaKaWe said:

I think African nations should look closer to home for solutions to their problems before blaming Trump. He's only been in power for 3 plus years. Africa's been in the toilet for centuries.

I was not blaming Trump for Africa's problems WeDa. I am stating that a strong isolationist US president is usually bad for the world and the other economies incl our own.  In its own that statement makes sense since the US is the top country in most respects in the world. They need a decent non-corrupt non-abusive Leader. We are a developing nation and usually get negatively affected most every time Trump tweets some or other idiotic comment especially at 4am when his opposition (incl people in his own party who are too shit scared to now oppose him).  He pulls an army overnight out of Syria, we in SA get affected economically believe it or not. He starts a tariff war with China, we feel the effect potentially worse than the Yanks or Chinese or even what Europe does. I liken Trump to Zuma. Self glorifying, self entitled, threatens oppositions and own party people. Very powerful. I fear he will get re-elected again unfortunately because as I said, it's as if the Dems have totally fallen apart in terms of leadership. They will finally choose someone after all their in-fighting coming up and I still think the opposition is 'te lig in die broek' just as in RSA.  America will re-elect him because on the surface things look good. And just like the ANC there is no decent opposition. That is not necessarily Trump nor the ANC's fault. However it creates a vacuum of power that is then abused. The saying 'where there is smoke there is fire' is true in most cases, Trump just has such a disorganised opposition he will be acquitted of everything until one day the Republicans themselves open their own eyes. Just as the ANC was besotted by Zuma, so too the Trump train steams ahead. MY family in the USA have told me the Dems will do everything to get rid of him, I tell them that won't happen anyday soon. Hard to believe but true.

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2 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

I am stating that a strong isolationist US president is usually bad for the world and the other economies incl our own.

I don't agree. Read the piece that Jimi posted a few days ago. For Trump it has always been about balance. You buy from me and I buy from you. When you go back into the very basics of Economics, you'll see that that was the very essence of the start of trade. A matter of supply and demand.

Whenever you have an unbalanced trade relationship, things always end up in the same way. Initially both parties are as happy as a pig in shit until it becomes unbalanced, i.e. A buys more from B than what B buys from A. Eventually A will run out of resources to trade with and B smiles all the way to the bank. If and when A runs out of money, then B will have to find a new trade "partner" and A will end up being the sucker. If B fails to find a new "partner" he will end up without a market for his goods. It will sit on the shelves and his income will dry up and he will end up without fokol, like A. Only difference is that A became poor before B. This is exactly what was starting to happen to the USA.

Central to the EU and China has always been the idea of, we want to be the biggest and in control. Basically they wanted to take over from the USA and claim the BS title of "Leader of the Free World". 

Every previous US President rode on that title and made use of it. Maybe abuse is a better term. Every modern day President left the WH filthy stinking rich. Trump is going to be the first to leave it poorer than when he went in. He knows it and he doesn't care. It is all about America. That is where many people decide that he is in isolationist who doesn't give a shit about the rest of the world. 

That is as far away from the truth as you can think. He has always said the same thing, and he has been saying  it for years. You can check it out, There are many examples. There needs to be a balance in the world economy. He doesn't want the USA to be the kings of the world. He wants all to have equal opportunities. He has never ever tried to harm the Chinese economy. He only wanted things to be balanced. I cannot remember the figures off the top of my head but I think that at the start of his Presidency the USA were buying about 1 1/2 times more from China than what Chine was buying from the USA and the US manufacturing sector was going for a ball of shit and nobody gave a damn. It was the same with other countries as well.

When Trump asked world leaders WTF that happened, they said that nobody ever queried it. They just accepted it.

Obama told the people that the manufacturing jobs are gone and will never return and they had too live with it. Trump campaigned and said he would bring the jobs back and Obama laughed at him.

There is no way that one can argue that a balanced world economy is bad for the world. I cannot see how Trump could be held responsible for the failures of the SA economy. The state of the SA economy lies squarely on the shoulders of the ANC and, dare I say, business leaders who could not get enough of licking the arses of the ANC leadership in the nineties.

South Africa was a net exported of intellectual property when the ANC came into power. Our arms industry compared favourably with the USA, France, the UK, Germany and the USSR. When the UK needed to replace their attack helicopters their eventual choice was between our Rooivalk and the US Apache, with the Rooivalk being superior on a number of points. What swung the deal was the fact that the USA could manufacture and provide support for hundreds of helicopters and SA could not guarantee that. The weapons systems on the Rooivalk is any day as good as, if not better than that of the Apache. Our G6 canon was the most advanced in the world and probably still is, or is at least still one of the top self propelled canons in the world.

3 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

He pulls an army overnight out of Syria, we in SA get affected economically believe it or not.

They should have been out of there long ago. The question is "Whose side is SA on in the Syria complex? The USA and the rebels or Asad and Putin?". If it is the latter then, yes, it would affect SA. 

3 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

He starts a tariff war with China, we feel the effect potentially worse than the Yanks or Chinese or even what Europe does.

I don't see the connection. The tariff war is between the USA and China. It should benefit SA. When the trade from China to the USA decline because of the tariff war, China would be looking to some other markets which puts the buyer in a stronger position, IMO.

3 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

I liken Trump to Zuma.

That is petulant. Trump doesn't even take his salary. He donates it to various causes. He has his home in Mar A Lago which he built with his own money, long before he became president. He has more brains under the nail of his left little finger  than the entire Zuma family put together.

3 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

Trump just has such a disorganised opposition he will be acquitted

No. He will be acquitted because the facts do not support the allegations. Have you watched the impeachment proceedings at all? He will be acquitted for the same reason the Mueller investigation couldn't pin anything on him. It was BS fabricated charges. 

3 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

MY family in the USA have told me the Dems will do everything to get rid of him

Exactly.  They have trade the Russia hoax and now they are trying impeachment. They should have worked with him to achieve what he stand for. That would have gathered them much more support from the swing voters. Instead they have been fighting him for four years and alienated the swing voters. People are gatvol for the lefty luvies, their hurt feelings and their safe spaces. It is staring to show all over the world. Same thing happened in the UK with Boris Johnson. 

Finally, do yourself a favour and watch the presser with Trump and Netanyahu yesterday. Listen carefully what Trump says. Try to ignore the rhetoric and listen carefully what he says. His goal is not to pick a side and help Israel come out as the only winner. He wants the whole area to be prosperous. He wants to help the Palestinians to have their own autonomous state and he has already offered to help them set up their state. He offered financial aid and expertise. His goal is to have two states with healthy relations in every way including trade relations. He wants to help the Palestinians to also become a recognised and respected independent state on the world front. Does that sound like an isolationist? I don't think so.

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Thanks Vlag , I don't intend to get into a detailed debate re the Trump. Seriously I am on this site for sport not politics, and I doubt you and I will have the same political choices in life, which in some ways we perhaps shouldn't have anyway since we have different upbringings, life experiences and world views.  Some of what you say may be correct, and some of what you say may not be correct in my opinion, but luckily you can have your opinion re the man and I mine. Luckily or unluckily, I work 9+ hrs a day and then a few hrs in the evening oftimes so no, I actually don't have time to follow the circus word for word as you describe it. I do however read and follow a few news reports to the effort so keep up to date with what I can and quite honestly, how much time I really want to offer up to following whether he is truly guilty or not, is luckily not too much. Again I re-iterate, he is not as effective as the opposition being ineffective. Alas that is true for many politicians and I hate to tell you, Trump is certainly not exempted

I do understand economics thank you, and again, I am not blaming Trump for the African or SAfrican woes. I have said his choices and actions affect us, and if you don't realise or agree how varying global politics and economics affect us then I am not going to explain it. I sit in meetings monthly where the exchange rate as well as the millions leaving our markets are explained (based on various political events around the globe, including those of the US and those in SA), and those people presenting to me know what they are talking about IMO of course. The Trump actions definitely do influence our economy and one day when I have hours to do research I will go do so for you. Until then we have to agree to disagree on the man himself.

I end with my belief - where there is smoke there is fire. You may call me petulant, the point I was trying to make, is that he is not much different to Zuma in many ways besides giving up his own salary. He may be a self made Billionaire - he is not a President's ass...imo of course

Sela,  

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I'm way out of my depth here Mata, but I believe DT is a breath of fresh air when it comes to politics, simply because he's not a politician he's a business man.

He's not bothered about making friends by being PC all the time. I personally can't even listen or watch him, but from what I've heard and read, he's more popular than before being elected. 

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2 hours ago, WeDaFaKaWe said:

I'm way out of my depth here Mata, but I believe DT is a breath of fresh air when it comes to politics, simply because he's not a politician he's a business man.

He's not bothered about making friends by being PC all the time. I personally can't even listen or watch him, but from what I've heard and read, he's more popular than before being elected. 

Everyone is entitled to their likes and dislikes Weda. I know many people who support DT and I have yet to truly understand why . I actually returned to tell Vlag I am not fighting with him, talking politics to me is like talking religion. If you say the first few sentences to feel the waters as it were and then discover you have diverse opinions especially on a very volatile subject such as Mr Trump, then I prefer not to engage further as I know the discussion will ruin the friendship as it were. So I came to tell Vlag, you guys can continue talking politics here, I have no right to 'stop' you, that wasn't my intention, I just won't visit the topic is all. I have been biting my tongue re the matter, since I know most people here are seemingly more pro Trump than anti him. I just couldn't resist it when the picture genius came on board LOL

He is a very clever man (ha ha I won't say genius) - and obviously a successful businessman. But abrasive he is and other people's cup of tea - just not mine.

So apologies Vlag, you guys can continue discussing the pros of Mr Trump, I will withhold my opinion here because it is a volatile opinion and I don't want to 'ruin any friendship' as I said. And yes Weda your statement is valid, I don't necessarily believe in PC and yes our world is full of PC. I have a different theory why Trump is so 'successful' but I am sure then I will really be persecuted so only my very close friends know my theory haha.

Peace to all, sincerely, enjoy your debates, I just will not read this topic. And I say that because although I need to understand what people see in Trump, after 3 years and reading this forum for the pro Trump comments, I have yet to get that enlightenment.

PS I am withdrawing from this conversation because I admit honestly to myself Mr Trump makes me emotional. I cannot have an unemotional discussion re the topic,  so I will just withdraw. It's the best I can do re this topic.

Edited by Mata Hari

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On a personal level I view Trump as a clown.

However no one can deny he has revived the US economy. I am by inclination a Republican/Conservative because I detest the lefty tree hugger types like most of Hollywood. I loved it when Ricky Gervaise took them out.

 

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8 minutes ago, taipan said:

On a personal level I view Trump as a clown.

However no one can deny he has revived the US economy. I am by inclination a Republican/Conservative because I detest the lefty tree hugger types like most of Hollywood. I loved it when Ricky Gervaise took them out.

 

Klop! Couldn't have said it better.

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While factors worldwide, can and do affect the SA economy, the main problem starts at home.

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14 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

PS I am withdrawing from this conversation because I admit honestly to myself Mr Trump makes me emotional. I cannot have an unemotional discussion re the topic,  so I will just withdraw. It's the best I can do re this topic.

It's a good thing Mata. Politics and religion should never be discussed between friends.

All the grumpy old guys on here will still remember the 2 rules laid down in stone in 'MENS' bars back in the day.

No Politics or Religion

 

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On 1/29/2020 at 3:15 AM, Mata Hari said:

Because the democrats are battling to find a decent candidate does not elevate Trump in any way Vlag. An isolationist American president is not good for the world. America does not live in a vacuum. They affect everything in the world and we in SA particularly are feeling his jumping up and down and nosiy presidency. You may not feel it in the UK. I liken the Democrat breakdown after the Hilary loss (who by the way won the popular vote) to the shit we have with the DA breakdown. That leaves the people in power very dangerous in their power and that certainly applies to Trump.  

The Nats only won 38% of the popular vote in 1948

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1 hour ago, taipan said:

On a personal level I view Trump as a clown.

However no one can deny he has revived the US economy. I am by inclination a Republican/Conservative because I detest the lefty tree hugger types like most of Hollywood. I loved it when Ricky Gervaise took them out.

 

Trump does talk (tweet) a lot of shit but his actions to date (apart from the grabbing the odd pussy) have been pretty much the right calls.

The Democrats are responsible for getting him elected by putting up Thunder Thighs as the alternative President. You can't blame the deplorables for going for the least worst option

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Let's not forget - "After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world. ".......Calvin Coolidge

They're brilliant at it! Nothing else really matters as long as they're making money.

By the way.......they also financed the UK and others out of a BIG debt hole at the end of WW2............

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56 minutes ago, WeDaFaKaWe said:

It's a good thing Mata. Politics and religion should never be discussed between friends.

All the grumpy old guys on here will still remember the 2 rules laid down in stone in 'MENS' bars back in the day.

No Politics or Religion

 

Sorry Weda. I don’t agree on this one. Friends who cannot disagree and still be friends aren’t real friends. What’s more. This thread is, by nature,  political. Sociopolitical to be exact but still political. 
 

What’s more, this is a forum and the purpose is, after all about friendship communication and, in particular, debate. A debate requires at least two different opinions.
 

And then the title and sub-title of this sub-forum... 

“GOSSIP SECTION

General banter - anything goes.”

 

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1 minute ago, J1M1 said:

By the way.......they also financed the UK and others out of a BIG debt hole at the end of WW2............

And they have been funding almost everything and everybody all over the world ever since. That is Trump’s big issue and one that is a big factor in this current issue of impeachment. Burden sharing. The USA is forever criticised and rubbished by everybody but they are the main funding source for all the international organisations.
 

NATO had the USA as the single largest contributor for ages, and that was not only because of their large economy. They were proportionally the largest contributor as well. When Trump started bitching about the contributions of member countries (long before he even announced his running for President) none of the member countries, bar five IIRC, even contributed the agreed minimum. It was only when he threatened to withdraw that they stepped up. 
 

He bitched about the Paris agreement because it is an unfair and bullshit agreement. The biggest contributor once again? The USA. What’s more, it is an agreement with large monetary contributions with no punitive measures for not sticking by the agreement and the main culprits are the very same countries who are exempted from sticking to the rules. There are also no punitive measures for not paying the contributions. 
 

He bitched about NAFTA. Why? Because it was lopsided against the USA. They put together the USMCA which was equally benefiting to all three countries and which has now at last been signed. Why only now? Because the Dems were playing political games and kept themselves busy with fucking Trump instead of looking after the American people. 
 

He bitches about US-China trade. Why? Because, once again, it was lopsided against the USA. 

All of his issues are because of unfair shit. All he wants is for everybody to be treated fairly.

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33 minutes ago, J1M1 said:

Let's not forget - "After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world. ".......Calvin Coolidge

They're brilliant at it! Nothing else really matters as long as they're making money.

By the way.......they also financed the UK and others out of a BIG debt hole at the end of WW2............

Not quite correct. Although the UK did receive money through the Marshall Plan, they also only only finished paying off their war debt to the US in 2006

 

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